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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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colby wrote: |
Looks like "the old way" has to be brought up to date with the new methods of accessing R2. When it's possible to simply pull the data from a readily available feed it seems immensely inefficient to rely on ticking boxes, pressing buttons, etc. |
At present those millions of analog listeners must be sampled.
John |
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Ian Robinson Site Admin
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 3612 Location: Chorley, Lancashire
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Does it matter if iPlayer hits are added to the RAJARs as long as the bosses know who's listening? |
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Rachel Guest
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Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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RAJAR is a complicated statistical analysis of data collected from a controlled set of people. Just adding up the I-player hits wouldn’t allow for accurate extrapolation of the data. It would however give a deadly accurate indication of absolute listener numbers for I-player only, but in the whole scheme of things I-player hits are so few in number compared to the total number of listeners across all listening methods that for now at least they are unlikely to make much difference to the published listening figures. |
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Rob
Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 163 Location: Leicester
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Rachel wrote: | RAJAR is a complicated statistical analysis of data collected from a controlled set of people. Just adding up the I-player hits wouldn’t allow for accurate extrapolation of the data. It would however give a deadly accurate indication of absolute listener numbers for I-player only, but in the whole scheme of things I-player hits are so few in number compared to the total number of listeners across all listening methods that for now at least they are unlikely to make much difference to the published listening figures. |
It isn't necessarily true that the number of iplayer downloads equals the number of listners. I've been interrupted listening to a programme more than once and had to start again the next day - so that's two downloads for one listener.
And some people don't listen alone. I sometimes have other people in the room when I listen to the radio, whether it's a broadcast or a download.
iPlayer download numbers give some idea of the popularity (or otherwise) of iPlayer and the relative popularity of different programmes (or how technically savvy their respective audiences are, or how often the presenters plug their podcasts, or whatever else influences these things), but you can't assume that it's a one-for-one count of listeners.
This audience research lark is complicated!
Rob. |
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colby
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 1216
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Surely the whole "audience research" thing needs a complete rethink. As more and more viewers and listeners rely less on real-time, linear viewing and more on downloads, simple time-shifting or interrupted streaming, surely the statistics become meaningless?
Collecting iPlayer stats means that an absolute count can be made of downloads - in addition to providing a load of other info about where the file was downloaded to IP addresses, other user profiling and demographic info linked to the cookies on the user's computer (etc), whether it was played in a continuous stream or whether it was viewed at all.
However, once the access to "television" and "radio" programming moves in the direction of automated download of the most recent editions/episodes - such as with Sky+ or even Apple TV (using iTunes at the core) - we're into Podcast territory. Once that happens we can move stuff between different devices like iPhones and iPods - and then what?
Interestingly, the rapid take-up of Sky+ and Sky+HD means that it's now actually much easier to track precisely what people's viewing patterns are simply by returning a log of the data their "display device" (eg decoder box and digital television display) is handling at any one time, but the collection of data regarding how many people viewed a production, what they viewed it on and where they were when they viewed might be just as relevant. So how do we track the fact that a person watched the latest edition of Doctor Who on her iPhone with her best mate whilst they were at 35,000 feet en route to their holiday destination?
When I'm travelling, I playlist a load of podcasts from the BBC and elsewhere that have been downloaded automatically in iTunes on my Mac and I dump them over to my iPod. But what if I end up deleting some of them without listening? Unless someone asks me specific questions personally the stats can only determine what I downloaded and when (and the IP address I used to download from, of course!).
So how reliable is any of the data connected if the way we view TV (and listen to radio) so radically different to the way it was even 20 years ago? _________________ (signature and avatar removed, violated forum Rule 2.) |
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Briant
Joined: 02 Jun 2007 Posts: 964 Location: Liverpool England UK
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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How do they interpolate that twenty million people watched Susan Boyle on TV last week? Do they ask a few people and multiply that figure by what ITV estimate? |
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colby
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 Posts: 1216
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Briant wrote: | How do they interpolate that twenty million people watched Susan Boyle on TV last week? Do they ask a few people and multiply that figure by what ITV estimate? |
They still seem to rely on the "installed sample" of special set-top boxes that log everything the TV does. From that sample the figures are extrapolated on a regional and then national basis. I'm sure this is supplemented with other forms of research, though.
I just can't see how it work these days, but I guess if the Advertising Agencies are happy to accept the figures then it doesn't matter (and it's the Ad Agencies that count for commercial TV). _________________ (signature and avatar removed, violated forum Rule 2.) |
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Mark Mayhew
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2897
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Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Anyhow bringing this thread back to where we started-Richard Allinson back on BBC Radio 2 very soon-counting the hours down now.
Are you excited?/Have you heard the new adverts on Radio 2 announcing his return.
The future looks bright from a BBC broadcasting perspective.
Allinson rocks-you bet he does. |
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NickSheffield
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 508
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Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Mark Mayhew wrote: | Anyhow bringing this thread back to where we started-Richard Allinson back on BBC Radio 2 very soon-counting the hours down now.
Are you excited?/Have you heard the new adverts on Radio 2 announcing his return.
The future looks bright from a BBC broadcasting perspective.
Allinson rocks-you bet he does. |
Well...I'll actually be getting up at 3am on Saturday morning to head to the airport, so I'll get the perfect breakfast radio. |
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Mark Mayhew
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2897
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Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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What better way to start a holiday than listening to Richard on the way to the airport.
Hope you are going somewhere nice and that you have a great time.
Remember on your return to the UK to use the iplayer feature to catch up on Richard's shows while you have been away. |
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MadeinSurrey
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 3130 Location: The Beautiful South
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Mark, are you for real? Do you really love Richard Allinson that much? Anybody else light your candle? _________________ MiS |
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John W
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 3367 Location: Warwickshire, UK
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: |
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MadeinSurrey wrote: | Mark, are you for real? Do you really love Richard Allinson that much? Anybody else light your candle? |
Right, to hell with member ID confidentiality. Mark Mayhew IS Richard Allinson!
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MadeinSurrey
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 3130 Location: The Beautiful South
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: |
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I suspected as much! Or maybe he's related to him? _________________ MiS |
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Rachel Guest
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: |
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and I'm a Captain in the Swiss Guard.... |
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MadeinSurrey
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 3130 Location: The Beautiful South
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Do you enjoy Toblerone Rachel _________________ MiS |
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Fred
Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 225 Location: Cirencester, Gloucestershire
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RockitRon
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 7646
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Blimey! He looks a bit fierce, doesn't he? A bit Bungalow Bill. _________________ Ron |
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Minx
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 4088 Location: France/Spain/Peterborough/Tenerife
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: |
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John W wrote: |
Right, to hell with member ID confidentiality. Mark Mayhew IS Richard Allinson!
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Nah..... he's his agent _________________ Minx
To err is human, to forgive - canine. |
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Lord Evan Elpuss
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 3417 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Rachel wrote: | and I'm a Captain in the Swiss Guard.... |
Standard Greetings Cap'n Rachel! How many gadgets are on your Swiss army knife?!! _________________ Lord Evan Elpuss, Your ideal job is a Lumberjack. |
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Caught his first show on I - Player fantastic music, and loved him playing Kate Bush tracks. |
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Mark Mayhew
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2897
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Yes, Richard has played some very good music during his first 2 shows.
During his time on Radio Oxford with the Allinson Albums I wrote to the BBC a couple of times suggesting the format would be very good for a wider audience on mainstream radio-it seems some of the format/features have followed Richard to his new shows. |
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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According to Radio Times Rich is covering for Chris on 15th June for one day only. |
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Mark Mayhew
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 2897
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Lovely-great news. |
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Fred
Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 225 Location: Cirencester, Gloucestershire
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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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He should take the slot if Chris moved to Breakfast? |
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davem
Joined: 13 Mar 2009 Posts: 115
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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I do agree with that he did a fine job when johnny walker was off on suspension |
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