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mark occomore
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 9955 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: Baroness Thatcher |
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Baroness Thatcher has issued a rallying call to British troops in war zones in a message to mark the 25th anniversary of the liberation of the Falklands.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6748125.stm
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I think she will go down in history as one of the all time greats. |
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Toggy tea slurper Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Baroness Thatcher |
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mark occomore wrote: |
I think she will go down in history as one of the all time greats. |
All time great whats? |
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 4861 Location: Here, There, Everywhere.
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Baroness Thatcher |
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Toggy tea slurper wrote: | mark occomore wrote: |
I think she will go down in history as one of the all time greats. |
All time great whats? |
well there really were only 3 great PM's in the 20th century: Churchill, Atlee & Thatcher. Those 3 shaped the world we live in today more than any others. _________________ His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west..... |
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Toggy tea slurper Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Churchill and Atlee I agree but Thatcher, no |
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 4861 Location: Here, There, Everywhere.
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Toggy tea slurper wrote: | Churchill and Atlee I agree but Thatcher, no |
As Andrew Marr said last night, she created the country we live in today. Turned it around from a country that was bankrupt, both financially and mentally. _________________ His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west..... |
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Toggy tea slurper Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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And everything Andrew Marr says is gospel is it? he's entitled to his opinion but I'm sorry, I don't agree with him. |
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firewirefred Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Baroness Thatcher |
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mark occomore wrote: | I think she will go down in history as one of the all time greats. |
Great what, though? Certainly not one of the greatest PMs. In fact, I would go so far as to say one of the worst. A horrible woman whose premiership caused a lot of people a lot of misery - many in my family included. |
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Helen May
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 19406 Location: Cheshire
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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gfloyd wrote: | Toggy tea slurper wrote: | Churchill and Atlee I agree but Thatcher, no |
As Andrew Marr said last night, she created the country we live in today. Turned it around from a country that was bankrupt, both financially and mentally. |
Saw that and I think he's right.
H _________________ 88 - 91 FM this is Radio 2 from the BBC!
I said it live on air in the studio with Jeremy Vine on 10/3/2005 |
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iwarburton
Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 2133 Location: Northumberland
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: |
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I never liked Margaret Thatcher but agree that her impact on the country was immense--for good or ill.
Ian. |
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firewirefred Guest
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: |
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iwarburton wrote: | I never liked Margaret Thatcher but agree that her impact on the country was immense--for good or ill. |
I agree. An impact she certainly did make... |
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Behind Geddon's Wall
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 1553 Location: Kingston Upon Hull/ The Cloud Factory
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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I know I'll be in bother for this, but here goes
Today we give thanks for "Thatcher's War" - an futile waste of British, Argentine and Falkland Islanders' lives. _________________ Geddon
You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil |
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 4861 Location: Here, There, Everywhere.
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Behind Geddon's Wall wrote: | I know I'll be in bother for this, but here goes
Today we give thanks for "Thatcher's War" - an futile waste of British, Argentine and Falkland Islanders' lives. |
Curious why do you use the word futile?
In my dictionary futile is defined as:
–adjective
1. incapable of producing any result; ineffective; useless; not successful: Attempting to force-feed the sick horse was futile.
2. trifling; frivolous; unimportant.
Which of the two meanings of the word are you referring to here? _________________ His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west..... |
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Behind Geddon's Wall
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 1553 Location: Kingston Upon Hull/ The Cloud Factory
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Ernie:
1. incapable of producing any result; ineffective; useless; not successful: Attempting to force-feed the sick horse was futile.
The case in which I use it is this:
The Falklands "conflict" was a mixture of cock-up and opportunism.
The cock-up was the announced scrapping of the RFA ship and the British Antarctic Survey which gave the impression that the UK was divesting itself of everything South of Ascension Island. The opportunism was that of the Argentinian "Scrap metal merchants" on South Georgia.
The ONLY person from that Government to come out of that debacle with any shred of honour left was Lord Carrington who realised his mistakes and resigned.
I also remember at the time being 'instructed' by the then PM to 'Rejoice' at the death of the Belgrano crew.
Having basked in the glory of British soldiers' Deaths, she called a general election to bolster her position while she planned her next attack - on the british Workmen.
(Rant Over) _________________ Geddon
You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil |
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 4861 Location: Here, There, Everywhere.
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Behind Geddon's Wall wrote: |
I also remember at the time being 'instructed' by the then PM to 'Rejoice' at the death of the Belgrano crew.
(Rant Over) |
Just wanted to correct a factual inaccuracy in your post. The comments
"Just rejoice at that news and congratulate our forces and the marines"
were made about the recapture of South Georgia. Your memory is a little clouded I suspect. _________________ His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west..... |
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iwarburton
Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 2133 Location: Northumberland
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Am currently re-reading Simon Weston's account of his role in the Falklands War, where he sustained terrible burns and was in agony beyond the imagination of most of us.
He says that, if he'd had a gun on him as he writhed in the inferno, he'd have shot himself to end his agony.
He also implies that several others did just that.
Dulce et decorum est??
Don't know whether Baroness Thatcher has ever read this. Perhaps she should be forced to do so.
Ian. |
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 4861 Location: Here, There, Everywhere.
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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One wonders what the point of having an army is if it is not to be used under any circumstances. _________________ His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west..... |
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iwarburton
Joined: 08 Dec 2006 Posts: 2133 Location: Northumberland
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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That's not what I said, of course. But was this a cause that was worth incurring so much agony? And why did nobody other than Lord Carrington carry the can?
Ian. |
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Behind Geddon's Wall
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 1553 Location: Kingston Upon Hull/ The Cloud Factory
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Ernie Wrote:
Just wanted to correct a factual inaccuracy in your post. The comments
"Just rejoice at that news and congratulate our forces and the marines"
were made about the recapture of South Georgia. Your memory is a little clouded I suspect.[/quote]
I stand corrected as to the context, but I still object to being instructed to rejoice by the person who instigated the whole thing. _________________ Geddon
You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil |
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 4861 Location: Here, There, Everywhere.
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Behind Geddon's Wall wrote: |
I stand corrected as to the context, but I still object to being instructed to rejoice by the person who instigated the whole thing. |
General Galtieri ? _________________ His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west..... |
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Behind Geddon's Wall
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 1553 Location: Kingston Upon Hull/ The Cloud Factory
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Galtieri was only the opportunist who made use of the signals comg from HMG the we were no longer interested in the South Atlantic. He saw an opportunity to improve his domestic standing by invading, as MT did when the Government realised it's mistake and had to send men, planes and ships to retake the islands. _________________ Geddon
You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil |
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gfloyd
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 4861 Location: Here, There, Everywhere.
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Behind Geddon's Wall wrote: | Galtieri was only the opportunist who made use of the signals comg from HMG the we were no longer interested in the South Atlantic. He saw an opportunity to improve his domestic standing by invading, as MT did when the Government realised it's mistake and had to send men, planes and ships to retake the islands. |
Your arguement that Thatcher actively "instigated" the conflict, as in
verb
1. to cause by incitement; foment: to instigate a quarrel.
2. to urge, provoke, or incite to some action or course: to instigate the people to revolt
is not supported by any documentary evidence.
The removal of the Navy ship was a factor, but it did not instigate the conflict. _________________ His name was ernie ........ and he drove the fastest milk cart in the west..... |
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Behind Geddon's Wall
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 1553 Location: Kingston Upon Hull/ The Cloud Factory
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: |
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The removal of the Navy ship, and hence the removal of the British Naval Presence from the South Atlantic URGED The Argentine military to ease there domestic problems by giving the country a common enemy to fight and hence take their focus of the dire state of their economy.
The invasion was facilitated by the Thatcher Government. _________________ Geddon
You simply mustn't blame yourself -- the days were perfect
And so were exactly what I was born to spoil
For I am the Rider to the World's End
Bound across the cinder causeway
From the furnace to the quarry
Through the fields of oil |
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Highlander
Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Posts: 348 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: |
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gfloyd wrote: | Toggy tea slurper wrote: | Churchill and Atlee I agree but Thatcher, no |
As Andrew Marr said last night, she created the country we live in today. Turned it around from a country that was bankrupt, both financially and mentally. |
The way the Thatcher Government treated Scotland (poll tax etc) sowed the seeds of what we have today - a Nationalist First Minister in Scotland and the possible breakup of the Union. _________________ Over the hill they came....the greatest Army in the World.....The Tartan Army |
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